this country descusts me

[NIS3R]

her we go again,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-eyuFBrWHs

ever wonder why these country's don't like the us? cus there are thousands of good reasons! -__-

[The Killing Joke]

Your spelling disgusts me. ;)

[lefty]

descuts. lol.

thousands of reasons?

[chris]

Why does this surprise you? The news used to be view as a public service; the original mandate of the CBC was to disburse information across Canada. Unfortunately, we live in a world of dollars and cents and the media is no longer insulated from it. Cable news cares about ratings and advertising revenues not the facts of the public’s view of them. You can bitch about Faux News or who ever else but they’ve got people tuning in for hours on end and lots ratings. They are making money like any other TV station; misinforming the public is just a byproduct.

[RANDOM H3RO]

lol @ discusts.....

[ORION]

ever wonder why these country's don't like the us? cus there are thousands of good reasons! -__-
But we're not "Officially" in either country...
It's a U.S. fight, and if the middle east can't distinguish one country from it's neighbour then it's just as bad as the U.S.

[EyeMaster]

Fox news is not independent news.
Most news networks, specially in the US, receive tapes constructed by PR type of government agencies engineered to produce concent amongst the people, they are most of the time aired withouth editing or fact checking.
Oil producing countries hate the US because the US keeps creating instability, overthrowing governments and installing their own, just like in Irak.

There are thousands of reasons to hate the US administration and companies, and I'm one of those who oppose them. Pretty soon, Canada will be part of the police state of the US. People don't even notice that it's already happening.

I am in total discust with what's happening in the world.

China needs to bankrupt the US as soon as possible (it currently has the power to do so, research it for yourself, I don't have time to explain).

Problem is, the US' army is stretched too thin already, so they can't wage war with Iran, that's why they want to nuke it.

Expect something to happen within 2 months to create a new 9/11 just so the war has an excuse to do something, not necessarily nuke, but something.

The US has been using weapons of mass destruction since the late 80's. It's called DU (Depleted Uranium). It goes against the Geneva convention. The US gets 80% of their DU from Canada, which makes us complicit with the US in it's war crimes.

Gorge Bush is deemed a war criminal (more so than Sadam) by many countries in a meeting held around 2003 or so, in Japan, if I'm not mistaken.

And finally, now it's illegal and you can get thrown in jail in the United States simply to do a demonstration or protest that does not support the war in Irak. It's been vetoed recently.

I say, fuck them! And take all our troups out of Irak and Afganistan RIGHT NOW. It's an illegal war and we got no business participating in it.

[Krythos]

well we may not like it EM. but the fact is. the morons at the top keep pushing us into war with the US because they are scared of the US turning on us, I think.

[7900gs]

quoting orion:

But we're not "Officially" in either country...It's a U.S. fight, and if the middle east can't distinguish one country from it's neighbour then it's just as bad as the U.S."

....so we Are unofficially in either country?...

by the way, that wasn't a question, i just don't have the breath to explain obvious stuff...we are officially and unofficially tangled up in the middle east.

dont vote conservative*

[SKULLCRUSHER]

I think we need more parking lots.

[gOOCH]

i think we need more epicness
http://files.filefront.com/smoothwmv/;8402992;;/fileinfo.html
http://files.filefront.com/faileddefuseavi/;8399380;;/fileinfo.html

[DeathSniper]

I don't get all the hate. Seriously. To me it's basically the same as all the fanboys who moan and gripe about the 360, PS3, and Wii. Sure there's "good and bad" and "right and wrong" subjectively - but disregarding previous events, whether they be political or military, and only taking into consideration one side's negative points...is akin to turning a blind eye to what you don't *want* to see or know. And yes, fyi, I am American.

[EyeMaster]

Ahh, but see, when you look in details, you find out that 911 was an inside job and was the pretext to go to war in Afganistan, then Iraq and possibly Iran. All because they want oil, and run a pipeline throuhg afganistan. It's not at all like fanboysm, because people are dying for no reason but the greed of high politicians and head of coorporations. Negative points? Where are the positive points? Country deceives people to go to war because it wants to fuel it's oil needs and dont' care how they get it done... I see no positive in that scenario.

[lefty]

Ahh, but see, when you look in details, you find out that 911 was an inside job

oh god.

i stopped reading your post at that... spare me from your bullshit.



China needs to bankrupt the US as soon as possible (it currently has the power to do so, research it for yourself, I don't have time to explain).

.........................

you. are. a. total. fool.

i seriously wonder with some people... do they actually think before they speak? did you actually THINK about china being the superpower? or are you talking out of your ass because america is evil and surely any other country would be better? get a clue.



There are thousands of reasons to hate the US administration and companies, and I'm one of those who oppose them. Pretty soon, Canada will be part of the police state of the US. People don't even notice that it's already happening.

... let me guess, down with harper, up with layton? amirite?


And finally, now it's illegal and you can get thrown in jail in the United States simply to do a demonstration or protest that does not support the war in Irak. It's been vetoed recently.

o rly? is that why protests still go on in the states and you dont see hords of people heading to jail?

you sound like youve been reading one too many conspiracy theories with a tin hat so as the government doesnt take over your mind. thanks for the lesson on what really happened on 9/11... while youre at it, can you educate me on pearl harbour and the moon landing too?

[nekochan]

her....thats a simple mistake...some times normal ppl think they hit the button when they dont...common mispelling of here.

descuts...that one is kinda bad and a typical spelling mistake of a 10 year old but you get points for sounding it out :)

country's....your kidding me right...A) no need for apostrophe B)countries....plurals ending in "y" become "ies" and C) since its plural the apostrophe would be after the "ies"

if i missed anything feel free to point it out...as for the vid i didnt watch it bc my script blocker doesnt allow nuttin and thats how i like it...

HEY LOOK I POSTED OUT SIDE MY THREAD!!!



oh and bank of japan has more money then anyone else in the world I do believe....if they merged with the japannese mail service which they should and prolly did =]

[gOOCH]

you sound like youve been reading one too many conspiracy theories with a tin hat so as the government doesnt take over your mind. thanks for the lesson on what really happened on 9/11... while youre at it, can you educate me on pearl harbour and the moon landing too?

dont forget all the other conspiracies, like the bs reasoning for vietnam and the gulf war, face it, america runs on war

[lefty]

her....thats a simple mistake...some times normal ppl think they hit the button when they dont...common mispelling of here.

descuts...that one is kinda bad and a typical spelling mistake of a 10 year old but you get points for sounding it out :)

country's....your kidding me right...A) no need for apostrophe B)countries....plurals ending in "y" become "ies" and C) since its plural the apostrophe would be after the "ies"

if i missed anything feel free to point it out...as for the vid i didnt watch it bc my script blocker doesnt allow nuttin and thats how i like it...

HEY LOOK I POSTED OUT SIDE MY THREAD!!!



oh and bank of japan has more money then anyone else in the world I do believe....if they merged with the japannese mail service which they should and prolly did =]

oh the irony.

[The Killing Joke]

I like pie.

[EyeMaster]

Sorry, I shouldn't have changed this into a name calling or insulting thread.

Back to civil discussion. How do 2 steel framed structures, fall at freefall speed from a plane? How does 1 forty seven or so, stories tall, steel frame again, fall from a small fire, neetly into it's own pile when no plane actually hits it? Buildings made of steel simply don't fall that easily! Building 7 fell by controled demolition. There's no explanation that I know of. If anyone does, please educate me!

[nekochan]

dood they said the same crap about the oakland bombing.

Starting to get boring now....

[aftersh0ck]

I say, fuck them! And take all our troups out of Irak and Afganistan RIGHT NOW. It's an illegal war and we got no business participating in it.

There are no Canadian troops in Iraq. It's officially deemed a "peacekeeping" mission in Afghanistan...though most people say otherwise. Trust me, what we are doing in Afghanistan is nothing compared to what the U.S is doing in Iraq.

[gOOCH]

harpers an idiot for volunteering canada for the most dangerous place, canadian death rates are much higher than us, dutch, british or any other country in the middle east
please america and put ur troops in the middle of the desert in a nice base, and parade around it with tanks, but dont go to kandahar

[7900gs]

the guys that said stuff about parking lots and pies are on the right track...

as for Canadian soldiers not in Iraq,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2003/03/27/cdnsoldiers030327.html

[marvel]

I know there were canadian soldiers in Iraq, the PM never admitted it but a US general confirmed there were several of them

[EyeMaster]

There are no Canadian troops in Iraq. It's officially deemed a "peacekeeping" mission in Afghanistan...though most people say otherwise. Trust me, what we are doing in Afghanistan is nothing compared to what the U.S is doing in Iraq.

Actually, we do have some troops in Iraq. The troops we have in Afganistan are doing attacks, not just defending. We are complicit with the US in their illegal war.

Do a search on google about canadian troops in Iraq. We also supply money and equipment, as well as Weapons of Mass Destruction (depleted Uranium) which is wreaking the middle east.

[lefty]

Sorry, I shouldn't have changed this into a name calling or insulting thread.

Back to civil discussion. How do 2 steel framed structures, fall at freefall speed from a plane? How does 1 forty seven or so, stories tall, steel frame again, fall from a small fire, neetly into it's own pile when no plane actually hits it? Buildings made of steel simply don't fall that easily! Building 7 fell by controled demolition. There's no explanation that I know of. If anyone does, please educate me!

how? im thinking a couple planes flying into them helped, what with the impact and ensuing fire and all.... but i could be wrong. :rolleyes:


Actually, we do have some troops in Iraq. The troops we have in Afganistan are doing attacks, not just defending. We are complicit with the US in their illegal war.

Do a search on google about canadian troops in Iraq. We also supply money and equipment, as well as Weapons of Mass Destruction (depleted Uranium) which is wreaking the middle east.

how do expect to do 'defending' when you have threats all around you? do you wait for them to bum rush you, or do you take the preemptive attack route?


harpers an idiot for volunteering canada for the most dangerous place, canadian death rates are much higher than us, dutch, british or any other country in the middle east
please america and put ur troops in the middle of the desert in a nice base, and parade around it with tanks, but dont go to kandahar

...

so youre saying there are more canadian deaths than american in the middle east? lol? you cant be serious.

strictly from an afghanistan stand point youre wrong, nevermind including iraq... which is part of the middle east;


As of August 23, 2007, there have been 596 coalition deaths in Afghanistan as part of ongoing coalition operations in Afghanistan (Operation Enduring Freedom and International Security Assistance Force (ISAF)): 361 American, 73 British, 69 Canadian, 24 German, 21 Spanish, 10 French, 9 Dutch, 9 Italian, 4 Danish, 4 Romanian, 2 Estonian, 2 Norwegian, 2 Swedish, 1 Australian, 1 Czech, 1 Finnish, 1 Polish, 1 Portuguese, and 1 South Korean.

and considering mr. harper wasnt in power when the mission in afghanistan started, i dont know what youre on about...

[manofphat]

Remember post #27 when manofphat warned everyone to keep this conversation factual without insulting each other's personal beliefs or their opinions.

[gOOCH]

total troops fighting compared to total deaths is what im talking about, and im not sure but i thought that harper was the one who went for kandahar, a more dangerous place, im too lazy to research it

[Mike-KT]

I think this could be a lot more civil

Yes there are Canadians in Iraq, serving under US command because they are training with the US forces. Canadian troops training with the US has occurred for a long time and is not impacted by the war.
Additionally Canadian forces took part in the rescue operation of James Looney and the other Christian aid workers

Other than that Canada is focussed on Afganistand and previous peacekeeping missions. I get pretty sad when a soldier dies over there, but I know from living in a former war zone that something needs to get done. Without international attention and aid afganistan will continue to be the smelly crotch of the world.

As for 9/11, yeah there's freaky stuff, but the main concern should be, how to effect policy regardless of various conspiracies or plots?

[mfkr]

See this really pisses me off. Everyone is giving the conservatives shit for us being Overseas. Hold on one second...weren't the liberals in power when we our boys and girls were sent over seas to fight? Oh, yes they were. Secondly, the extended deployment of troops we currently have over there until 2009 were scheduled by Former Defense Minister Bill Graham. Harper hasn't extended the stay but has said that an immediate withdrawal would be disastrous.

Essentially, Harper will fulfill the commitment made by the Liberal Government and judge process by that.

[7900gs]

all in all its just another brick in the wall***

[mfkr]

How do 2 steel framed structures, fall at freefall speed from a plane? How does 1 forty seven or so, stories tall, steel frame again, fall from a small fire, neetly into it's own pile when no plane actually hits it? Buildings made of steel simply don't fall that easily! Building 7 fell by controled demolition. There's no explanation that I know of. If anyone does, please educate me!

FEMA developed an early explanation of the collapses, which had come to be known as the "pancake" theory. It was defended especially by Thomas Eagar and popularized by PBS.On this view, when the connections between the floor trusses and the columns broke, the floors fell down, one on top of the other, quickly exceeding the load that any one floor was designed to carry. A number of self-published accounts by structural engineers suggested that a combination of factors led to the collapse, but most suggested a version of pancake collapse

As in the theory which is currently accepted, the fires were taken to be the key to the collapses. Thomas Eagar, an MIT materials professor, had described the fires as "the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse".This is because the fires were originally said to have "melted" the floors and columns. As Eagar said, "The temperature of the fire at the WTC was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel." Jet fuel is essentially kerosene and would have served mainly to ignite very large, but not unusually hot, hydrocarbon fires. This led Eagar, FEMA and others to focus on what appeared to be the weakest point of the structures, namely, the points at which the floors were attached to the building frame. Once these connections failed, the pancake collapse could initiate.The NIST report, however, would ultimately vindicate the floor connections; indeed, the collapse mechanism depends on the strength of these connections as the floors pulled the outer walls in.

The WTC complex comprised seven buildings, three of which completely collapsed on September 11, 2001. At 5:20 pm, 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story steel-frame skyscraper across the street from the rest of the complex, became the third building to collapse. Unlike the Twin Towers, the collapse of WTC 7 had been anticipated for several hours and the building had been evacuated. A transit (or theodolite) was used to measure the extent of a visible bulge.

FEMA's provisional study was inconclusive and the collapse of 7 WTC was not included in the final report of the NIST investigation into the collapse of the World Trade Center when it was published in September of 2005. With the exception of a letter to the Journal of Metallurgy, which suggested that some of the structural steel had been exposed to temperatures sufficient to melt it, no studies of the collapse of 7 WTC have been published in scientific journals.

As of August, 2006, NIST anticipated that it would release a draft report on the collapse of 7 WTC in early 2007.It released a progress report in June of 2004 outlining its working hypothesis. On this hypothesis a local failure in a critical column, caused by damage from either fire or falling debris from the collapses of the two towers, progressed first vertically and then horizontally to result in "a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure". In answer to the question of whether "a controlled demolition hypothesis is being considered to explain the collapse", NIST says that it "would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements."

On June 29, 2007, NIST issued a press release stating that it expected to release its draft report on the collapse of 7 WTC for public comment by the end of 2007.

Some authors, most notably Wayne Barrett and Dan Collins in their book The Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11,, have cited the decision to locate the Office of Emergency Management headquarters on the 23rd floor of 7 WTC as a possible contributing factor to the collapse of the building, noting especially the placement of large diesel tanks, against warnings from the Fire Department, to provide backup power for the facility.

[7900gs]

FEMA...awesome objective reporting....

[mfkr]

FEMA...awesome objective reporting....

At least it provides a more logical approach as to what happened Instead of saying that it was a controlled demolition.

[EyeMaster]

I will, next post, because I have to go get some links. But for now, just remember that Skyscapres are designed to withstand airplane hits. The Empire state building had a plane crash into it, and the building was opened for the public the next day.

The steel used in the WTC's were rated at 2000*F (need to check for acuracy) and jet fuel doesn't go over 1000*F. Most of the fuel was burned at the explosion (fireball seen on videos). You can evne see that when a car explodes in movies, they have lots of gas tanks put in them to make a nice explosion, and the fire afterwards is small in comparison. But wait, also when a car burns like that, the metal doesn't melt!!!

If you work in an office, you'll notice that almost everything but the paper and cardboard, are all fire retardant. The computer desks are made of particle boards, the cubicles (fabric burns fast, too fast to burn long), tiles in the ceiling don't really burn (mostly fiberglass), and the steel and concrete doesn't burn as well.

The pancake effect has been proven wrong by structural engeneers, University professors, experts of all kinds. It is simply not possible. Since the buildings fell at freefall speed, pancake is out the window right away. THere would be resistance on the way down which would slow the collapse. The resistance would also cause the building to fall sideways at some point, not completly in it's own foot print!

Anyway, time to get the links...
**Auto-merged Double Post**
Criminal antiwar? http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6377

Pretty much any information about 9/11: http://stj911.org/index.html
The fires? http://www.911review.com/attack/wtc/fires.html

Lots more information:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/
http://www.stoplying.ca/links.htm

[mfkr]

While the melting point is around 2000 degrees, the loss of structural integrity occurs below 1000 degrees. This is why Steel mills can alter and stretch steel at around 900 degrees.

It is possible something is fishy with 9/11...the Pentagon debris field and damage was way too small to be a 737. However, the idea of a government ruining it's symbol of capitalism, and essentially murdering thousands of it's own people in order to start war over seas seems a little far fetched.

[Wesley Crusher]

Molten steel (http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/moltensteel.html)
Part two (http://www.911review.com/errors/wtc/molten.html)

[EyeMaster]

It's not as far fetched as you think. When the future prosperity is at stake, the gov. will do lots of attrocious things. Look in the past where us (the white men) killed millions of native indians just to get their land in order to expand the home land. We did so by giving them chicken pox or something like that, in infected blankets.

What's at stake? The oil the US drinks everyday is on a decline now, the end is somewhere, but we can't predict it. Who controls the oil or has enough of it, will be the super power of the earth.

To have a one sided, but still scary to watch, documentary, I suggest you watch "Oil, a crude awakening". It is awesome.

If the US was really in Iraq to bring democracy (a farce), and save the people, why did they not do anything in Uganda, or anywhere in Affrica when there's mass murder happening by the regimes there which are far worse than what Sadam has ever done?

Sadam AND Bin Laden were both financed and helped by the US. But that is another can of worms I don't really feel like opening.

The US might be the lead in offensiveness to the world, but it really saddens me that Canada is helping them do so. Our leaders know we have much to gain in helping them if the world goes according to their plan, even if the rest of the planet suffers way too much.

[Mike-KT]

I've seen a lot of the internet evidence for the 9/11 attacks being a conspiracy. I just can't figure out why the people with the proper power would commit the act and why none of the people who knew (helped plan, etc) wouldn't speak out. To me, the situation to too gray to say either way, which is right. It's certainly not my place to call anyone an idiot and a pawn because I don't agree with them

As for following along with the American agenda, I can't see a way around it. All the western countries act together, for their collective economic good. Canada wouldn't be in Afghanistan if the US wasn't there, because only the US can provide the necessary arms and money to stabilize the mission. That being said, Canada should be in Afghanistan, because we have the political capital and we need to do something with it. Nation-building in Afghanistan is a gamble, it might not work out. If it does though, that'll be huge. Not only will a really good chunk of Central Asia be peaceful (which would be nice before China becomes more active in the region), but the West will have more political capital to go into other Muslim countries (Muslim, you can say it, who are we trying to kid?) and effect change.

About Uganda, Congo and Darfur, there could be a lot of help placed there, you're right. But, since Somalia, Africa is basically a lost continent. They would have been better places for the troops in Iraq, but you'll have a hard time finding anyone who thinks the Iraq war should have begun in the first place.

[mfkr]

Today i saw a guy walking in mississauga Wearing a t-shirt with a map of the middle-east with the slogan "In the Words of Metallica; 'Kill em' All'" With a falling bomb over top...

While i don't agree...I did find it humorous.

[SKULLCRUSHER]

I saw a photo of what should have been Iraq or Iran or somewhere in the middle east and it was all paved and spotted with McDonalds locations. Interesting concept.

[7900gs]

everything Peg and MFKR have said in this thread

you've really got to get educated on the subject, as I like to say as little as possible about this stuff because a lot of people, on both ends of the argument enjoy throwing 2 or more cents in without being fully educated on issues ranging from foreign policy, human rights etc etc...

the main points being brought up, in defence of the u.s.a and its foreign policy, including denials of facts that the u.s. government KNEW about 9/11, myths about the "fact" that they're in it for the oil, ... etc... means one is being an Apologist. look that up please to understand what it means. and understand for whom and for what concepts you are apologizing.

if it is the case that one has simply chosen to be an american apologist, history has judged, is judging and will continue to judge, to say frankly, against this point of view.

which brings us back in a full circle, when quoting reports, find out who's writing them, who is sponsoring them, who benefits from them, who publishes and funds them.

quoting another post here, the west does not have to stick together, that is a negative, if everyone falls in line not only are we supporting corrupt u.s. interests overseas and at home, but we are destroying Canadian interests, at home and abroad.

I've already said far to much. Apologist ... just research it and try not to be one.

[mfkr]

I just had a great response to this...and closed the wrong damn tab....

tomorrow, i will re write my response while i'm at work...

:mad:

[manofphat]

I just had a great response to this...and closed the wrong damn tab....

Does this happen often with other people?

[DeathSniper]

Let's have Canada go off by themselves and see how long they really last. No, seriously. *cough* I'm sure there's no need for the West to "stick" together.

Corrupt U.S. interests --> I'm sure the U.S. is the only country here that has any corrupt agendas - whether they be political, financial, or personal. Eh?

You're all spinning the same die - it'll keep going round and round until it stops on some random number that no one is betting on.

[EyeMaster]

Mano: It happens to me often at work because I have the track ball mouse and it's got 4 buttons ( |OO| ) and I programmed them to be Minimize, left click, maximize (wheel), right click, close. I often touch that "Close" button by mistake.

7900, I totally agree.

Deathsniper: Are you aware of the circle of influence? I work for the gov and I get sent on all sorts of weird training, but i do get stuff out of them. The thing is, we live here in Canada, the US is right next to us and directly influences us. To say that what they are doing is wrong but letting it go by withouth resistance is hypocrisy. You must do what you can otherwise the people in power will do what they want. And what they want directly affects our ways of living, our country's standing in the world and more.

[lefty]

It's not as far fetched as you think. When the future prosperity is at stake, the gov. will do lots of attrocious things. Look in the past where us (the white men) killed millions of native indians just to get their land in order to expand the home land. We did so by giving them chicken pox or something like that, in infected blankets.

What's at stake? The oil the US drinks everyday is on a decline now, the end is somewhere, but we can't predict it. Who controls the oil or has enough of it, will be the super power of the earth.

To have a one sided, but still scary to watch, documentary, I suggest you watch "Oil, a crude awakening". It is awesome.

If the US was really in Iraq to bring democracy (a farce), and save the people, why did they not do anything in Uganda, or anywhere in Affrica when there's mass murder happening by the regimes there which are far worse than what Sadam has ever done?

Sadam AND Bin Laden were both financed and helped by the US. But that is another can of worms I don't really feel like opening.

The US might be the lead in offensiveness to the world, but it really saddens me that Canada is helping them do so. Our leaders know we have much to gain in helping them if the world goes according to their plan, even if the rest of the planet suffers way too much.

white man point is null and void, we are talking about attacking your nation, and the natives clearly werent part of the european nation.

ok to the oil... but iraq is hardly an oil super provider. (7th out of the 12 OPEC nations*) while the whole war for oil point im not debating, im saying that the US could of gone for better targets if it really wanted to. the whole 'zomg iran is next' theory is bullshit as well, for many reasons, but im sure you can figure that one out.

yea, many MANY 'documentaries' out there. while they serve as something to think about, a lot of them are bullshit. with the amount of 'documentaries' on the 9/11 attacks, i think my conclusion would be that the planes weree military planes packed with explosives hitting a tower packed with explosives all organized by israel. splendid.

democracy point; plain and simple, look after your own interests. as sad as it is to say, no one really cares whats going on in africa, and thats why nothing is being done in that area. theyve been at eachothers throats for ages, civil war, genocide, all something that goes on in that region, and never is something really done.... by any nation. thank god we have the UN :rolleyes:

yes... they WERE funded by the US... just like the USSR WAS allies with the states in ww2 then went sour shortly after. its politics... again, look out for your interests. America didnt want afghanistan to fall to the russians, soooooooo they funded osama as he was leading the fight against the russians. didnt want iraq to fall to iran, soooooooo. you get the point.

canada helping them? oh yes... our solid forces in iraq which consists of thousands of canadians... oh nvm, thats not the case is it? we are hardly supporting them, infact, im willing to say most canadians hate americans. which is great too, cause we are quite fucked without them, what with them being bellow us and all.

rest of the planet suffers? huh? is this because america hasnt gone into darfur yet? or cause they havent stopped the palestine - israel conflict? i dont understand what youre trying to say with that comment.

http://www.opec.org/library/Annual%20Statistical%20Bulletin/interactive/FileZ/XL/T13.HTM

[Krythos]

Peg. I agree with you on the part about most canadians hating Americans, allthough hating an american for their stupid leader isnt the way most should go. heck im dating an american that makes me very happy lol. her views and my views on this whole war are very different, but it cant be helped, and makes for a good conversation at times. lol.

but back to the point of this thread. a. do not hate our government for siding with the US enough so they dont turn their WMDs on us. because I wouldnt put it past mr president to do that. Canada is not a super power like america. if we fought america on our own, they would easily win. we follow in line for 2 reasons. 1. we stick with them they protect us from any of the eastern countries trying to take us over. 2. we stick with them because if we dont, they could turn on us, turn us into americans then we would stick with them cuz we had no choice so. I think we would rather be canada helping america, rather then be america. no?

[aftersh0ck]

I know there were canadian soldiers in Iraq, the PM never admitted it but a US general confirmed there were several of them

Not officially serving in a theatre of operations, that's the difference. Canada isn't officially at war with Iraq, unlike the U.S. There are soldiers there as part of exchange programs and additional training. But, it's voluntary, and the Canadian troops there aren't attached to their own units or detachments, which means that they aren't technically at war there.

[mfkr]

you've really got to get educated on the subject, as I like to say as little as possible about this stuff because a lot of people, on both ends of the argument enjoy throwing 2 or more cents in without being fully educated on issues ranging from foreign policy, human rights etc etc...
the main points being brought up, in defence of the u.s.a and its foreign policy, including denials of facts that the u.s. government KNEW about 9/11, myths about the "fact" that they're in it for the oil, ... etc... means one is being an Apologist. look that up please to understand what it means. and understand for whom and for what concepts you are apologizing.
if it is the case that one has simply chosen to be an american apologist, history has judged, is judging and will continue to judge, to say frankly, against this point of view.
which brings us back in a full circle, when quoting reports, find out who's writing them, who is sponsoring them, who benefits from them, who publishes and funds them.
quoting another post here, the west does not have to stick together, that is a negative, if everyone falls in line not only are we supporting corrupt u.s. interests overseas and at home, but we are destroying Canadian interests, at home and abroad.
I've already said far to much. Apologist ... just research it and try not to be one.


Never once did i say the US didn't know it was coming. Never Once did i deny that the war in Iraq is an oil war.

I love how because i do not believe it was an inside job, and because the only theory I?ve posted was from FEMA, I'm labeled as an Apologist. The term Apologist goes both ways in this argument. An apologist is one who promotes a cause or denies an event usually through selective perception and the exaggeration of positive facts. In this situation here, the term can and does go both ways as each side focuses on the exaggeration of their positive points, while omitting the negative. I'm sorry, I haven't exactly said that anyone here is wrong. I simply put up a concept that i believe to be plausible as opposed to a controlled demolition of WTC 1, 2 & 7. I find it interesting that you blast me for quoting a FEMA report, however not the others that have been quoted. I'm sorry but these reports are created by the same people who believe in the concept of remote controlled planes in a theory known as the flight of the bumble planes. Some believe in the concept of a missile pod on the nose of the attacking planes. Almost all of these sites have these concepts listed on their sites and take them as truth. These concepts have been put out into the mainstream public in documentaries such as ?In Plane Sight? and ?Loose Change?.

So far, all i have said is that i do not believe the American Government Murdered thousands of their own citizens in order to start an oil war in Iraq. The thought itself is absurd. I do believe the US government knew the threat was out there and that it was simply ignored and swept under the rug like so many other threats. For example, the Millennium bomb plot to blow up LAX, the CIA knew, and it was only when the guy was stopped crossing the border with a truck full of explosives that they realized how true the threat was. I do believe that the Taliban was behind it and i do believe that this was the original reason for going overseas to fight in Afghanistan. To fight a terrorist organization that was controlling an entire nation. However, I also believe that once troops were amassed in Afghanistan it gave the states an opportunity to create a factious link between the Taliban and saddams regime. Using this link under the guise of weapons of Mass destruction it gave the states to go into Iraq and begin combat operations with the goal of controlling the oil rich land mass. Kind of a "kill two birds with one stone" idea.

I agree it was right for Canadian troops to assist in Afghanistan against the Taliban. I also agree that Canadians should not be in Iraq in any combat role as that is a problem the Americans and Brits have gotten themselves into. No one else.

As for the concept of the 9/11 twin tower demolitions no one can be 100% positive as to what exactly happened. Everything out there is a theory. No matter what anyone says, no matter how many mathematical concepts, physical concepts none will ever be known to be correct. Why? There has never been a full scale experiment containing the all of the materials available, contained in building that size, and involving an airplane strike in order to fully register and document what exactly an airplane strike, fire and structural deterioration would do to a building of that size.

As for the 1945 bomber crash into the Empire state building that's like comparing Apples and oranges. The buildings are structurally different (cement and steel vs Steel) and the planes don't even come close. The b-25 that crashed into ESB was only 47 feet long, and built in the early 1930's. It was mostly Sheet Metal and the entire plane weighed less than one of the engines off of the 737s that hit WTC.

[trapster]

YAH! and more buses!

[mfkr]

YAH! and more buses!


I hate the bus. They all smell like urine.

[7900gs]

Never once did i say the US didn't know it was coming. Never Once did i deny that the war in Iraq is an oil war.


don't be scared cause theres nothing to worry bout, let your hair down to the track and squa....

its awesome...something about bliss huh...

[DeathSniper]

A lot of people don't seem to look at this issue with an open mind. Three people I have lived with worked for the government - two of them being auditors. Another one of my current co-workers has worked for Ontario Hydro for 10+ years. One of my friends works for CSIS, while another one is a Customs officer at the airport. A ton of them are either law enforcement, military, or ex-military :) So yes, I do think I have some sort of grasp of political 'influence'.

And my comment prior was a satirical jab at how Canada would be like without the US there for them. What I find also funny is all the anti-US comments while ignoring pretty much every other country, including this "great" country that we all live in.

I'm sure Canada doesn't look out for it's own interests. I'm also sure there is probably another documentary stating how Canada is the greatest country in the world. Simply because something is a documentary does not mean it is unbiased or skewed. Take 'Bowling for Columbine' as example.

In the end, please note - nothing can really be garnered out of such a discussion, besides the fact that each side will say how ignorant the other side is, and what can start as a civil discussion usually ends up in a heated debate over several particular issues, while ignoring others. Everyone has had different experiences which will lead them to different viewpoints - hell, even the way we were raised has something to do with this. A lot of people will claim they know what's 'really' going on: they've done this, they work in this, they know that person, they talked to this person, look at this documentary, etc... But in the end - everyone must realize: we're all just a small slice of the pie.

[mfkr]

don't be scared cause theres nothing to worry bout, let your hair down to the track and squa....its awesome...something about bliss huh...

Eminem Square Dance Lyrics?

[EyeMaster]

Canada has it's mistakes, but somehow, the US trumps it in size and deceit. Of course, they also have 10x the population.

[lefty]

YAH! and more buses!

buses? (http://blackbus.ytmnd.com/)