gg Creative

[DeathSniper]

Wow...gg to Creative (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1)

Looks like my new build is going to have to be done with another sound card *sigh*

[Mike-KT]

What else is there?

[ArchAngel2]

Wow, that's rough.

As someone posted further down in the thread, Creative does have every right to bring this issue up, but I think it's a bit of a dumb move on their part.

I haven't used anything buy onboard sound since I broke my Audigy and after reading this I will think twice before buying another Creative product.

[DeathSniper]

I've actually been hearing very good things about the Asus Xonars.
Auzentech & M-Audio also have some alternatives. It's just going to take some looking around to see what they're capable of.

I'm leaning towards the Xonar currently - afaik it's got decent Vista 64 & linux support already.

While Creative does have a right to bring up this issue - it's the whole point of "there shouldn't BE this issue in the first place" that is getting to people. The drivers and support for their own products from Creative are absolutely horrid.

[Nekkris]

Wow...gg to Creative (http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1)

Looks like my new build is going to have to be done with another sound card *sigh*

I was reading this on digg, they got owned by newegg for doing that :P
Oh and I'm pretty sure there's a boycott site out there already aswell!

[cujo]

lol creative just screwed themselves out of a nice chunk of potential profit

they have the right to bring it up, but as someone on the creative forums pointed out; its similar to GM threatening a suit against a mechanic that specializes in after-market modding

[DevilShootsDevil]

Wow this is huge. Fuck creative, even though I don't even use Vista or any of their products...
I'm browsing through the countless pages to see some sort of response from the Creative side, no luck yet..

[Stremes]

lol thats fucking gay. makes me wanna contact him on the side an order it.

[CocoonMaN]

most motherboards onboard sound works fine :|

[ORION]

Anyone who says onboard sound is fine hasn't tried a good sound card + headphone combo, that said the modded X-Fi Xtreme Music that I got from Wes will be my first and last Creative product, I love this card dearly but if this is the standpoint their administration takes, fuck em.

[badastronaut]

Anyone who says onboard sound is fine hasn't tried a good sound card + headphone combo, that said the modded X-Fi Xtreme Music that I got from Wes will be my first and last Creative product, I love this card dearly but if this is the standpoint their administration takes, fuck em.
Well, I think it also comes from the audiophile vs. non-audiophile argument too. Some people just can't tell the difference between great quality audio and just okay quality audio. I tend to find myself in the latter category, although I'd be happy to try something with a good setup. Who knows, maybe I'll be hooked.

[ORION]

I had a good one at the lan >.>
though it was a little too intense for Mano or Calamity to handle.

[gOOCH]

getting a sound card or even headset wont make you hear much better, but il say the sound volume management with the xfi is good for footsteps, increases volume when there is little noise, then decreases when you shoot or w.e

headset for comfort and long gaming sessions
sound card to take load off cpu, awesome random settings, and being able to switch to play what you hear in vent to spam music

[ORION]

getting a sound card or even headset wont make you hear much better


True, if anything you'll be hearing worse after a few months of CSS.




headset for comfort and long gaming sessions
sound card to take load off cpu, awesome random settings, and being able to switch to play what you hear in vent to spam music

Headset for sound quality motherfucker.
I got my ATH-500's before my X-fi and I nearly came when I put the fuckers on. They make Logitech Pro Gamer headsets feel 8-bit.

As for the sound card bit; Yes.

[ArchAngel2]

Auzentech & M-Audio also have some alternatives. It's just going to take some looking around to see what they're capable of.

Auzentech just buys Creative chips and builds their own card. So don't buy their stuff either as their drivers will be just as limited.

[GreenEnvy]

Auzentech just buys Creative chips and builds their own card. So don't buy their stuff either as their drivers will be just as limited.

I think only 1 of the Auzentech cards uses the X-fi chip, so avoid that one.

Creative is stupid here, but they do have a couple points.

Good things he did:
-rewrote vista drivers to support the same features found in the XP ones. I don't think creative should complain about this at all.

Bad things he did:
-Modified XP drivers of some cards to add features they never came with or were advertised with, mainly Dolby. This is a problem when he enables Dolby on a card that creative never paid a license to Dolby for. Now Dolby can go sue Creative.

I haven't bought a creative card since my old Audigy way back when. I had a turtlebeach montegoDDL, which is great, but they offer zero 64 bit drivers, so I am screwed in XP or Vista 64.

[ORION]

I think only 1 of the Auzentech cards uses the X-fi chip, so avoid that one.


Why? they write their own drivers and the X-fi chip is a powerful piece of machinery.



Creative is stupid here, but they do have a couple points.

Good things he did:
-rewrote vista drivers to support the same features found in the XP ones. I don't think creative should complain about this at all.

Bad things he did:
-Modified XP drivers of some cards to add features they never came with or were advertised with, mainly Dolby. This is a problem when he enables Dolby on a card that creative never paid a license to Dolby for. Now Dolby can go sue Creative.


What exactly are they paying Dolby for? A license, yes but a license for what? That's like Microshaft suing every hardware manufacturer on the planet.

[DeathSniper]

Afaik he did not "add" any feature that was not already present but disabled.

[GreenEnvy]

Why? they write their own drivers and the X-fi chip is a powerful piece of machinery.



What exactly are they paying Dolby for? A license, yes but a license for what? That's like Microshaft suing every hardware manufacturer on the planet.



Well if the point is to boycott creative, and you buy a card using the x-fi chip, you are still buying a creative product, and therefore not boycotting them. Creative makes money on every one of those x-fi enabled azuntechs.

They pay Dolby for the right to use Dolby's decoding software, the software that takes the multichannel signal from the DVD or game, and figures out which speakers to send it to.

DS, from what I read he did enable features on other non-dolby versions of the cards that they were never supposed to have. This was possible because the cheaper cards had the same hardware as the more expensive ones, but they didn't have that functionality turned on. So you saved money buying a version that doesn't offer that feature. Him then turning that on is legal trouble for Creative.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like a creative apologist because I certainly am not, I'll be boycotting their products even more now. I just like to make sure people know both sides of the story.

[ORION]

Well if the point is to boycott creative, and you buy a card using the x-fi chip, you are still buying a creative product, and therefore not boycotting them. Creative makes money on every one of those x-fi enabled azuntechs.

They pay Dolby for the right to use Dolby's decoding software, the software that takes the multichannel signal from the DVD or game, and figures out which speakers to send it to.

DS, from what I read he did enable features on other non-dolby versions of the cards that they were never supposed to have. This was possible because the cheaper cards had the same hardware as the more expensive ones, but they didn't have that functionality turned on. So you saved money buying a version that doesn't offer that feature. Him then turning that on is legal trouble for Creative.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like a creative apologist because I certainly am not, I'll be boycotting their products even more now. I just like to make sure people know both sides of the story.

Whats wrong with alienating a stupid company that makes good hardware into just making hardware and not being stupid?

Also: If creative was too cheap to produce cards that specifically don't have that support, maybe they should be in trouble, otherwise Dolby should be going after the software pirate (Dolby's Decoder) and not the hardware manufacturer (See M$ reference above).

[DeathSniper]

http://www.custompc.co.uk/news/602343/creative-driver-modder-responds-to-crackdown/page2.html#comments

[DevilShootsDevil]

We’ve still yet to receive any kind of response from Creative about this, but Kawakami says that he’s been told that he can continue with his mods, ‘except the “forbidden” ones, and that he’s also ‘allowed to receive donations.’
lol fucking Creative

[GreenEnvy]

Whats wrong with alienating a stupid company that makes good hardware into just making hardware and not being stupid?

Also: If creative was too cheap to produce cards that specifically don't have that support, maybe they should be in trouble, otherwise Dolby should be going after the software pirate (Dolby's Decoder) and not the hardware manufacturer (See M$ reference above).

I concur, they shouldn't have sold artificially crippled cards in the first place, but it is common practise in the industry. It costs more to redesign the card without said hardware then it does to just disable the functionality in software. I have no issue with him unlocking it, I just mention creative does have a right to be upset about that part. Dolby probably would sue him too if they were annoyed enough, but generally they will go after creative because this guy isn't going to be able to pay them anything anyway.

A few years ago ATI released the Radeon 9500, which was basically just a faster 9700 with some things disabled. People quickly discovered this and turned their 9500's into 9700's.
ATI didn't complain, they let that go on and simply replaced the 9500 with the 9600 shortly after, which didn't have the required hardware to do this.

[ORION]

like the extra pipelines in the GeForce 6800 series cards, where many could be unlocked into 6800 Ultra's with a simple driver mod.

[DeathSniper]

lol @ Creative (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=11330). They edited their original post.

[DevilShootsDevil]

Lol.. Anyway, I'm looking to buy a new good sound card, what are the options here for me? Is there anything better than cards made by this retarded company? I want it to be both for music and gaming, but more so for music. Price range doesn't matter for me, quality comes first. Anyone can help me? Thx. ;)

[ORION]

As was mentioned earlier, the Auzentech X-fi Prelude is smexy @ like 200 last I checked, and the Asus Xonar is getting similar reviews for around the same price.

[DevilShootsDevil]

Not interested in 1st one since it is too closely tied with Creative.
But second card looks very nice, except I didn't like this point one reviewer gave: "I do not recommend this card for a hardcore gamer. It does not have the support needed for modern gaming audio." Ugh.. But I am still interested in it, thx for the suggestions!

[ORION]

Do any of you realize the irony in boycotting Auzen's #1 card because it's "too closely tied to Creative"?

[Mike-KT]

What's the goal here? Creative users want their cards to work well with Vista

Are you going to get a card that works well with your setup? Do it then

[GreenEnvy]

Do any of you realize the irony in boycotting Auzen's #1 card because it's "too closely tied to Creative"?

Irony? How?
If someone wants to send creative a message that they will not buy any of their products, then this is perfectly logical since the card uses creative hardware.
It also sends auzen the message that customers don't want to use a creative product.

I personally have no ill will towards auzen, they seem to make great products, but if I were to buy THAT card, it would be supporting creative too because they get a piece of profit from every one of those cards sold. I'll gladly buy another auzen product that does not use creative parts.

[ORION]

Irony? How?
If someone wants to send creative a message that they will not buy any of their products, then this is perfectly logical since the card uses creative hardware.
It also sends auzen the message that customers don't want to use a creative product.

I personally have no ill will towards auzen, they seem to make great products, but if I were to buy THAT card, it would be supporting creative too because they get a piece of profit from every one of those cards sold. I'll gladly buy another auzen product that does not use creative parts.

1. The audio processors have already been purchased, Creative already has their money.
2. Daniel K wanted to get the most out of Creative's products and make up for their shortcommings
3. Auzen wanted to get the most out of Creative's products and make up for their shortcommings
4. You're PC Audio experience wanted to get the most out of the available products and make up for their shortcommings

People crippling themselves to prove a point to a fagwad company because the company was crippling themselves in order to make a profit... no one else can see that as ironic?
more to the point that you're hurting other companies in the process...

[DevilShootsDevil]

Do you mean to tell me that Creative already somehow made money from me, even though I haven't bought any of their products?
There is nothing ironic with what I want. I'm boycotting Creative, simple as that. As far as I'm concerned Creative is not the only company that can provide audio cards, so how exactly am I crippling myself by not purchasing their products?

[ORION]

If creative is currently manufacturing the best audio processor for gaming and you refuse to buy it from a completely separate company from creative, you are handicapping your systems potential.
Creative doesn't have your money, they have Auzentech's money, Auzentech wants your money, which is why they created a good product to offer you in exchange for it (that just happens to be using parts that they ALREADY gave money to creative for).

[GreenEnvy]

saying they already have auzen's money isn't true, because the more cards people buy, the more auzen will order.
Anyway, I don't want to see an "innocent" company suffer, which is why I would buy non x-fi based cards from them. they made the decision to use creative products knowing all the crap creative has pulled over the years.

Getting another card isn't crippling at all, even if creative has the "best" audio chip available. The other top cards out there will perform just as well for anything 99% of us need.
current onboard sound will do pretty much anything you need, especially if you use the optical out.

[ORION]

Pointless argument is Pointless...

[Wesley Crusher]

My headphones don't have an optical connector :confused:

[ORION]

a few of the really nice Audiotechnicas did last I checked, and many other brands I'm sure.

[Mike-KT]

How are sound cards better than my Soundmax stock?

[DevilShootsDevil]

Anyway..

Of course, EAX is proprietary Creative Labs technology, so the very fact that we have to grade down the Xonar D2 because of its lacking EAX support goes to show just how tied-up the gaming industry is with Creative’s proprietary positional audio technology. Neither of these shortcomings limit the Xonar’s appeal for music listening, home studio use, or high-fidelity music listening, however, which appears to be where the Xonar D2 is targeted.
Looks like the ASUS Xonar is the choice for me, thx for the suggestion ORION, gonna order it from NCIX in a couple of days.

[ORION]

How are sound cards better than my Soundmax stock?

Kinda like asking how one LCD monitor can be better then another, richer, fuller high mid or low tones, wider sound stages, larger frequency ranges, I consider my setup to be pretty good, but there's a lot I could do to improve it, but like I said onboard to me sounds nearly 8-bit.
It's really just a leap of faith until you sit down with a really nice setup and really hear the difference.

[Wesley Crusher]

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/08/04/04/1554250.shtml

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04/04/creative_restores_home_brew_vista_driver_links/

http://lolcat.com/pics/hugztiem.jpg

[Hieyeck]

while i CAN tell the difference a good sound card makes, jkaupp bonesawing me from behind is still jkaupp bonesawing me from behind. as long as i can tell front, back, left, and right simulated on a headset, it's good enough for me. I game more than i listen to premium music, and i don't go out of my way to get flac or 320kbps mp3s.

[Sweetlou]

holy shit 320kbps wow

[ORION]

I can still hear the difference at 192 MP3, also you get more subtlies and better range (like hearing hostages being rescued from market on Italy, or hearing footsteps WHILE a grenade is going off).