TF2 Stats reset! (poll?)

[rk-]

It's about time :)

[Nekkris]

NT Mr 124

[Sweetlou]

no ive worked soo hard getting back too 50ish

[ungst]

but im top 20 now :(

[Sweetlou]

see no wins the higher ups have spoken

[DeathSniper]

Sure.

[lefty]

lemme just break into top 10.

[coolhat]

dooooo ittttttttt

[FourierT]

Pubbin' ain't easy.

[rk-]

I think a 6-month cycle is pretty good for stats.. they were last reset on the 25th of Feb.

[Nekkris]

No purely based on the fact that I never want to do as much pubbing as it took me to get my current rank again kthx.

[Gorbachev22]

Only if the heavy gets a better modifier =\

[Pharmacy]

I say reset :D

[Sweetlou]

i say go back to work

[Mr Fax Sender]

I say yes <3

I hate being stuck at 103. I was at 96 a week ago and no matter what I do I can't go down. It's ghey.

[badastronaut]

Sure, why not.

[iheartyou]

Do it, possibly modify the points system?

[badastronaut]

Do it, possibly modify the points system?
I second the point modifier. All of the new weapons that have come out need appropriate values assigned to them and I'm sure that a few of us would like to see some of the current values tweaked after playing with them for over 6 months.

[Xzinum]

fail poll

[UrU]

Isn't the reason it was done last time was to modify points and such (and nerf engineers in the face?):lol:

[BrAy]

Nooo! i finally broke 51.. must get 50!

[Mortivex]

I'm for a stats reset, but against it now.

The point modifiers need to be reworked, but how can you do that w/o knowing what the updates/new weaponry is for the other classes?

Saying now that (for example) a sentry kill is worth x points, doesn't take into account what the 'new sentry' in a few months will be.

Illustrating this is a regular pyro kill vs a backburner kill. Should a backburner kill be weighted the same...I'd say no as it's 100% crits, but that wasn't taken into account when setting the points for pyro kills before the backburner even existed.

[Xzinum]

I disagree with you Mort for the pyro's backburner. Sure it's 100% crits, but the 100% crits rewards positioning as opposed to just light people on fire. The fact is that you get a faster kill because you positioned yourself in the most effective way.

[rk-]

Agreed - I think Valve's own methods of making sure all the new weapons are still actually pretty balanced are enough for stats purposes, and that they all should have the same modifier as their primary counter-parts. There's also no point to waiting till all the weapons are out.. you want the stats to keep going for the 1+ years it takes for Valve to finish?

Stat reset also will spike the server numbers for a while, get ppl interested in pubbing again since they're not just slamming the heads against the perverbial wall of jk's 60k points :)

[Gorbachev22]

It should almost certainly have a lower modifier than the standard flamethrower, as the backburner is equipped solely for killing while the former also serves an unrewarded defensive purpose.

[Xy1]

Agreed - I think Valve's own methods of making sure all the new weapons are still actually pretty balanced are enough for stats purposes, and that they all should have the same modifier as their primary counter-parts. There's also no point to waiting till all the weapons are out.. you want the stats to keep going for the 1+ years it takes for Valve to finish?

Stat reset also will spike the server numbers for a while, get ppl interested in pubbing again since they're not just slamming the heads against the perverbial wall of jk's 60k points :)

NO, I have to agree with Mortivex on this one. We should wait to see what all the new upgrades are. For example, the default multiplier for the Heavy's Natasha is 1.2 whereas sasha gets 1.0. The pyro's deflect anything kills are 4 multiplier. Syringe gun has a 2.0 multiplier and the Blautsauger has a 1.5 multiplier. Who knows what else will be added... Ajustments will most likely be needed. (Don't forget the engi this time around!)

And the only reason stats were reset last time is cuz we changed the multiplier values a lot.

Lots of regulars are pubbing less cuz they are scrimming more :P (has nothing to do with not being able to catch up to JK, resetting the stats will not make us play more!)

I really don't see any reason to do a stats reset at this time.


It should almost certainly have a lower modifier than the standard flamethrower, as the backburner is equipped solely for killing while the former also serves an unrewarded defensive purpose.
Current multipliers :
Regular flame : 2.0
Backburner : 1.5

[Gorbachev22]

Heh whoops.

[jkaupp]

Hell, I'm surprised I'm in first still, as I don't pub as much as I used to. We should all try maybe to pub a bit more to keep the community up, but now with the 4 teams spawned by these servers actively playing we're around less, as XY said.

I'm all for a stats reset, and I think it's time to visit the point modifier discussions again. As for new weapons added, just have a small poll/post when they're released to talk about their points modifiers.

[Sher1ator]

Do It.

[rk-]

I again bring up the fact that Valve won't be releasing the rest of the weapons anytime soon - it'll be a long, drawn out process. Chances are, by the time the next 3 weapons are out, 6 months would have gone by again and we can just reset again. If we don't do it now, then when? Next Feb? A year from now? How long are you willing to wait for Valve to finish?

You can't leave stats going for too long a period - for one, it detracts from new blood coming into the server, which is something NR truly needs with all us puggers not playing anymore. And if the stats get too rigid (ie. no one can ever top #1, or break into the top 20, 50, 100, etc.) people just won't bother playing in the pubs in the first place. Lets be honest, it's tough enough to get the regular pugging crowd in there as it is, since we're all fed up with pyro spam or heavy spam or non-organized play - having a redundant stat system just reinforces that state.

[monty slick]

I'm happy, I finally broke into top 20 so I don't care either way.

[Mortivex]

Hell, I'm surprised I'm in first still, as I don't pub as much as I used to.

I stopped looking at the top 10 a long time ago when that NPH guy was like 30,000 points -ahead- of jk, what happen he get banned or somethin'?

[jkaupp]

He stopped playing on NR, and hasn't been seen since. Another one lost to competitive play.

[Sweetlou]

LEAVE IT ALONE 44th place and 2k in points today LEAVE MY STATS BE!!!




h8ers

[lefty]

v8er

[Sweetlou]

h8er

fixed

[SharpShooter]

rk just wants them reset because his stats are so bad since he took a break this whole summer. I honestly don't care about the stats so it does not mater to me but I would say leave them the way they are, there is still a lot of fluctiation in the rankings and that is the way it should be.

[iheartyou]

Resetting stats is also an incentive for new players to play as they wont be 100000000000000 points behind the leaders.
If you're in the top100 now, just think of how easily it will be to get there when they are reset.

[Mortivex]

If you're in the top100 now, just think of how easily it will be to get there when they are reset.

After the last stats reset in Feb I played every day for a couple weeks straight, and fluctuated day to day between the mid 20's and low 30's.

I took a few weeks (almost a month) off due to work end ended up like 180-something.

Since then I've stayed high-50's (well now low 60's) so long as I play once/twice a week.

If you really wanted to and actually 'play for points' you could be top 40-top 50 consistently...ranking so many times is more a quantity thing than quality.

[aSydiK]

He stopped playing on NR, and hasn't been seen since. Another one lost to competitive play.


Actually he quit because he said that everyone always stacked against him. *shrugs*

[kilatsat]

Actually he quit because he said that everyone always stacked against him. *shrugs*

ROFL! i swear i came up with that plan 2-3 months ago! i realized that i could have a 2/3 k/d and as long as 1/3rd of my kills were NPH i'd always see a points increase.

but about the stats reset..... YES! last time it happened when jk was on top..... he is on top again....

QQ i started playing here only a few moths ago with a 30,000+ point deficit to jk... and i made it to top 50 (before i stopped pubbing for tf2pickup). reset the stats, level the playing field, and see where everyone falls

[jkaupp]

Actually he quit because he said that everyone always stacked against him. *shrugs*

Meh. That happened to me before the first reset. I was the walking medic point buffet.

You have to realise that in a stats based system people will want to kill you because 1) You're good and 2) you're worth a lot of points.

[Mr Fax Sender]

That's how that works?

I never knew people were worth different points. No wonder I'm going nowhere, I'm killing all the noobs no one wants to touch.

[Sweetlou]

go stack the other team ur back always free on blue

[rk-]

Someone make this a poll so we can really vote.

[iheartyou]

*bump*
lets reset the stats already.

[Mr Fax Sender]

That'd be nice.

[Sweetlou]

^
nub

vote no stats no go

[Kimori]

I never really played for the stats - in fact, when I first started I didn't even know the servers did stat tracking of any kind. I play 'cause TF2 is a fun game and everybody on the NR servers are fun people. And having servers like 2km away from home makes for awesome ping.

That said, I've found that some games that keep stats will do a periodic reset to refresh the rankings. I used to play SubSpace/Continuum and every now and then they'd clear out the ranks and have people go at it again in public arenas.

[macho]

how 'bout when the new year comes around...then we can have a fresh 2009 stats list. that would make more sense, no?

[iheartyou]

how 'bout when the new year comes around...then we can have a fresh 2009 stats list. that would make more sense, no?

4 months away... ummm no. They could be reset twice in that time frame. Take a look at the stats. There is a 40k division between 50 and top5.

[macho]

so, then it means, play harder within that 4 month time frame... ;)

[Mr Fax Sender]

4 months away... ummm no. They could be reset twice in that time frame. Take a look at the stats. There is a 40k division between 50 and top5.

This man speaks the truth.

RESET

[iheartyou]

The reason for resetting the stats is 2 fold, 1 it rewards the better players with a clean slate to rework there position up the chain as well as provides the ability to buff up their kdr(from playing so much). 2 it provides incentives to new and looking players a less intimidating start point with everyone around the same points for the next few weeks.

[rk-]

lol, guys, let it go - you're points were never going to be permanent. Just let the reset happen.

[Sweetlou]

Vote no stats wont go

[stride]

RESET

[manofphat]

I've added a poll

[badastronaut]

Thanks a lot Mano!

[rk-]

Damn, now that's a majority - 13-1 ;)

[Sweetlou]

hay hay hoe hoe let'em stats go

[rk-]

Says the guy who didn't want the reset..

[lefty]

nooooo. was so close to breaking into the top 10. would of been glorious.

[Gunslinger]

So, seems like it’s time for a reset? If we do vote for a reset, I think there are a number of point modifiers that need to be tweaked. I think engineers should be un-nerfed. Pyros should probably be reduced since we came up with those modifiers before the update and the pyro now does far more damage due to the reduced fall off. The blutsauger should probably have the same point modifier as the syringe gun. We should start a new thread to discuss changes to the modifiers.

[Sweetlou]

Says the guy who didn't want the reset..

thats was b4 last weekend when i went up too 36 and back too 42 in 1 day

[Mr Fax Sender]

Figures you guys wanna reset as I'm addicted to Spore.

[Sweetlou]

hay me too atm but TF2 will be there and after the reset more points for me

[Mortivex]

So, seems like it’s time for a reset? If we do vote for a reset, I think there are a number of point modifiers that need to be tweaked. I think engineers should be un-nerfed. Pyros should probably be reduced since we came up with those modifiers before the update and the pyro now does far more damage due to the reduced fall off. The blutsauger should probably have the same point modifier as the syringe gun. We should start a new thread to discuss changes to the modifiers.

+1

[Pharmacy]

What are the point modifiers right now?

[Speed Racer]

Be Nice for consistent Resets at least montly to see changes of rank and also player improvements. Also some may play more then others which is also a factor.

[Mortivex]

What are the point modifiers right now?

Here. I'd paste it but it's a huge table. (http://tnr.hlstatsx.com/hlstats.php?mode=help#points)

I just vote for a reworking of the modifiers - so many of these point values were decided upon for weapons that didn't exist at last reset.

...and am I reading that right...you get points for eating sandviches? That's the type of thing that needs to be changed...

[rk-]

Here's a quick rundown of some changes, discuss if I missed anything. For anything not changed, go look at the sheet if you want to know that. And no, you don't get points for eating a Sandvich - you get points for killing someone with the Sandvich.. which is impossible.

Backstab Kill - +1.5 (up from +1)

Build Sentrygun - +3 (up from +1)
Build Dispenser - +3 (up from +1)
Build Teleporter Entrance - +3 (up from +1)
Build Teleporter Exit - +3 (up from +2)

Double Kill (2 kills) - +2 (up from +1)

Kill Assist - Medic - +3.5 (down from +4)

Ubersaw - +3 (down from +3.5)
KGB - +3 (down from +3.5)
Blutsauger - +2 (up from +1.5)
Flamethrower - +1.5 (down from +2)
Backburner - +1.25 (down from +1.5)

Just for interest sake, I left Natasha at +1.2 and all melee's at +3 (except the Bat and Axtinguiser, which is +2/+2.5 respectively). Also, all reflect's are still at +3.5.

[Mortivex]

And no, you don't get points for eating a Sandvich - you get points for killing someone with the Sandvich.. which is impossible.

Kill Assist - Medic - +3.5 (down from +4)



Sandvich could be fatal if served with lots and lots of mayo... :)

I agree with everything you said for point mods except medic - a good medic is hard to come by, and if someone is going to spend an entire round/match/game doing nothing but enabling his team's victory via ubers/kritz and overall well timed healing, he deserves compensation.

Upping points for engy is good. Engy (7 months ago at last reset) was being over-rewarded. Right now it's under-rewarded. 3 points is a happy medium, I like it.

[rk-]

Yeah, medic's the only one I'm expecting a debate about - there was talk of +4 being too high, but anything smaller being too low - perhaps +3.5 is happy medium, also?

[Gunslinger]

With the recent addition of points for killing sprees, I don’t think the points awarded for medic kill assist should be moved down. It may also be necessary to move the syringe gun and blutsauger to 2.5 and the bonesaw and ubersaw to 3.5 to compensate for the lack of killing. Another idea might be to award more points for getting an uber. I’m not as fond of that because if an uber is useless and your target doesn’t get any kills, you don’t really deserve to be rewarded.

Why are we moving the double kill to +2, the same as triple kill? Are we moving all killing sprees up by 1?

Do engineers still lose 5 points for destroying their own buildings? I don’t see why they should be penalized for moving up their sentry or teleports. However, they also don’t deserve 5 points for building each of them either. Can anything be done about this? It’s also unfortunate pyros can’t be rewarded for pushing people off cliffs.

Do we have stats enabled on the arena server? Since a round goes by so quickly, there may be a disproportionate number of points being allocated for round wins.

[rk-]

With the recent addition of points for killing sprees, I don’t think the points awarded for medic kill assist should be moved down. It may also be necessary to move the syringe gun and blutsauger to 2.5 and the bonesaw and ubersaw to 3.5 to compensate for the lack of killing.

I think +4 is enough to compensate for the fact that medics rarely go on sprees, since sprees over 2 or 3 aren't happening, like, all the time (cept for me cuz I'm leet).

Pretty sure stats are on #5, but I think that's balanced by the no-crits thing.


Do engineers still lose 5 points for destroying their own buildings? I don’t see why they should be penalized for moving up their sentry or teleports. However, they also don’t deserve 5 points for building each of them either. Can anything be done about this?

No, engi's don't lose points (fixed that last time), nor do they get +5, etc. That's old news, was the main fix last time.


It’s also unfortunate pyros can’t be rewarded for pushing people off cliffs.
The only way would be if TF2 recorded that as a "Player" kill (like when a soldier blows himself up on you and you get credit), but I don't think it does yet.

Took out the Double Kill, I misunderstood what it meant (I thought it was two kills with one rocket/sticky/whatever) - right now the sprees are giving +(# of kills - 1).. so a Triple Kill gives +2, Rampage (5 kills) is +4, etc. Adjusted Medic Assist.

Backstab Kill - +1.5 (up from +1)

Build Sentrygun - +3 (up from +1)
Build Dispenser - +3 (up from +1)
Build Teleporter Entrance - +3 (up from +1)
Build Teleporter Exit - +3 (up from +2)

Kill Assist - Medic - +4

Ubersaw - +3 (down from +3.5)
KGB - +3 (down from +3.5)
Blutsauger - +2 (up from +1.5)
Flamethrower - +1.5 (down from +2)
Backburner - +1.25 (down from +1.5)

[rk-]

Made a new thread.

[macho]

when will this reset occur?

oh and is there a way that on server 1, when you type rank, you can see your points...I don't think it works anymore.

[dru2]

I actually played on this server as a n00b several months back - even after a long hiatus it seems like its fairly easy to climb in the rankings. IMO the point modifiers seems to be an accurate measure of skill as well.

[Gunslinger]

No, engi's don't lose points (fixed that last time), nor do they get +5, etc. That's old news, was the main fix last time.


According to the events log, engineers still receive -5 points for destroying their own buildings.

[rk-]

Well tickle my ass if you ain't right, it does still do that. And I don't see a modifier to fix it.. hmmm...

[Xy1]

According to the events log, engineers still receive -5 points for destroying their own buildings.

I thought mano had fixed this a while back... maybe some update screwed it up?! Pretty sure he was able to change values so that engineers destroying their stuff would lose the current value of the building (should've been -1 atm)

Found the post :

This just in: As of February 17th engineers have been losing the amount of points they get for creating their buildings if they destroy them with their PDA's so we shouldn't have to worry about that anymore

[rk-]

Yeah, I thought he'd fixed that, but I have no idea how he did it if not through modifiers, and I don't see anything - any ideas mano? DS?

[ungst]

From what i recall, the points lost by destroying your own engy building = points for destroying an object...so we couldn't fix the problem without making a worse one...

[null]

So, engies get slapped down for moving up their stuff? Awesome! :P

[ungst]

would you rather slap down the engineer who moves his gun every now and again or the people that go through the effort of destroying the gun?

[iheartyou]

Perhaps to improve the points accumulation of an engie we could bump both their primary and secondary weapons above the norm.
Shotgun +3
pistol +5
wrench +4
Just a thought considering the blunder in respect to their buildings its also an incentive for engies to get out from behind their bunkers and put in work with there weapons.

[ugly]

Considering how much the wrench seems to crit it shouldn't get any points.

[Gunslinger]

I think the best way to handle this would be to change the construction points to the same as the destruction points. The value for destroying teleport entrances and exits is 2. The value for destroying dispensers and sentry guns is 5. Dispenser kills should probably be changed to 3 as they are not as hard to kill as sentry guns. The overall point increase to the engineer’s buildings remains the same as rk’s original post and now they shouldn’t lose more points than they gained by destroying their own buildings.

Build/Kill Sentrygun - +5
Build/Kill Dispenser - +3
Build/Kill Teleporter Entrance - +2
Build/Kill Teleporter Exit - +2

[rk-]

..and that would put us right back to where we were the last time. Engi's used to get +5 for SG building, and it was a mad stats-gainer. I really don't think an Engi blowing up their own stuff is a big enough deal to merit such changes.

[Gunslinger]

Yes, but now engineers lose those 5 points if they destroy their own sentry. The only way for them to keep the points is for someone else to destroy their sentry.

[rk-]

*shrug* I think we just have to say that's life - the fixes for the occasional -5 aren't worth the stat-whoring that will inevitably happen. In other words, Engi's would get a lot more +5 when building then they would -5 when destorying - it doesn't happen all that often, so it's not worth it. We're never going to be perfect with stat modifiers, anyways.

[iheartyou]

Bump, reset button needs to be pressed =D

[Sweetlou]

it had been done on a day i gotta work 12 hours nice RK thx.

[macho]

so i think the stats are reset...am i correct?

[McPwned]

Yep, I went in-game to confirm. Not even a top10.

[macho]

woot, i can maybe get my kill/death ratio above 1.0 now

[BrAy]

cool lets see what happens o.O

[badastronaut]

Yay! Thanks a lot to whoever pressed the button! Just like Macho said, I can finally have a kpd that's over 1 (since I'm not a dedicated medic anymore XD).

[McPwned]

I was in fourth place... OF FIVE PEOPLE! I'm so skilled.

[ungst]

all those hours of hard work wiped away...damn you rk, damn you.

[rk-]

Yeppers, mano hit da button, reset is live :)

[Mortivex]

so i think the stats are reset...am i correct?

Confucius say, "A server where I'm in first, is a server just reset."

[badastronaut]

Man, I just remembered how much I hate resets. I always seem to play my worst when I have a chance to get them looking good XD

[McPwned]

Excuses, excuses. I went from position ~175 to 11, so I'm happy.

IT IS CLEARLY GOING TO STAY THAT WAY FYI

[kilatsat]

i'm already depressed by my >100 position surrounded by people who played twice as long for similar points :(

[ugly]

I'm just going to wait until everyone else gets a ton of points so it'll be easier for me to get tons of points for each kill.

[macho]

i have a question about the servers!

i've been playing server 2, and all the maps that are being played are fastlane, gravelpit, badlands, and badwater, repeatedly...in that order. where are all the other maps? especially steel.

[McPwned]

Well, here's (http://www.northernresistance.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4530) the thread about map rotations. I think they're working on it.