Do you want a critless server ? [Archive]

archivist101

August 24th, 2008, 09:55 PM

Gorbachev22

August 24th, 2008, 09:57 PM

what happened to the "om" in option one? this should be fixed immediately. ps i love crits, especially ones on fourier

DevilShootsDevil

August 24th, 2008, 10:01 PM

I voted #2 because #1 is more or less "official maps".

Nekkris

August 25th, 2008, 01:00 PM

I understand that criticals can become rather distasteful, especialy at the climax of a game. But, provided that no one is 'bending, braking, or shattering the rules,' my opponent would have the same opportunities to gain and score criticals as I would. I'm fine with having them in on the servers.

Well the way I look at crits is that they benifit the heavier classes (ie solly and demo)

No way is a crit scatter gun shot going to kill 3 people, but a crit sticky can. :3

Pharmacy

August 25th, 2008, 01:41 PM

I really don't mind crits in a non-arena setting (even though I'm always the first to bitch about crit rockets :D). I think servers with crits give you more intense emotions, making things alot more fun. I know I love rocket spamming around a corner and hitting off a crit rocket into a mob of people.

Triple kill? Yes plz :D

Nekkris

August 25th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Shi- I can't vote for this poll because none of these options apply to me.

:\

Jellyfish

August 25th, 2008, 01:55 PM

Option for both #1 and #2 pleeeease

Fury99

August 25th, 2008, 02:14 PM

Crits do very little for excellent players, they catch a break every one in 20 crits or so, most of the time they don't need the crit to do what they're intent on doing.

The design of crits is to restore a little bit of balance so that players who aren't hardcore-comptative can still have an impact and still win, instead of being rolled 10/10 times by someone who's just a better player.

Because of that balancing nature of crits I would say removing crits would only work if you wanted to foster a competative environment which has the adverse effect of reducing your playerbase.

I voted yes for 1 because I would personally enjoy playing official maps without crits but I could see why it would be a bad idea since that takes away some of the fun of that rotation server for the less-competative group of players in the community.

kilatsat

August 25th, 2008, 02:14 PM

i want server #2 to be nocrit and server #1 to be 100% crit

WIN-WIN!

badastronaut

August 25th, 2008, 03:55 PM

I don't really mind crits, but I would like to see them off in #2. It's more of the "custom" server, so I feel like having no crits will just further customize it.

ChikenKannon

August 25th, 2008, 04:26 PM

I would love server 5 to be non-crits.

Jellyfish

August 25th, 2008, 04:29 PM

there are no crits on server 5...

and which of you beetches are voting for crits?

wakka wakka

August 25th, 2008, 04:30 PM

I dislike being critted, more than I like critting others...so, critless server, sure.

BTW - is there a reason why there's no option for both servers to be critless?

badastronaut

August 25th, 2008, 05:30 PM

BTW - is there a reason why there's no option for both servers to be critless?
Probably because they want to keep at least one server with crits. I don't think the pubbers would like every server to be critless.

Jellyfish

August 25th, 2008, 06:07 PM

BTW - is there a reason why there's no option for both servers to be critless?

Because people are silly.

Sweetlou

August 25th, 2008, 06:59 PM

i love them crits but h8 them also.

lefty

August 26th, 2008, 01:10 AM

and which of you beetches are voting for crits?

i did...

i hate them most of the time as i play medic a lot and it seems i only die from crits. but i also enjoy the fact that 1 crit can change the game pretty drastically. love the fact arena doesnt have crits as it makes sense... but otherwise, i think they should stay.

SpiderTroll

August 29th, 2008, 11:16 PM

i love them crits but h8 them also.

I concur.

It sucks some tough nuts to get critted, but you know your at even with the arbitrary selection of your crits.

You win you lose, but keeping them it lets everyone win at least once if only once.

rk-

August 29th, 2008, 11:58 PM

I think Fury99 hit it on the nose - while I voted for no crits on #2, I think removing crits would make things a little too elitest and the server would die. Besides, we tried this before and it failed.

As long as #5 has no crits, I'm pretty happy - I get my nocrit fix enough in pugs.

Mortivex

August 30th, 2008, 02:48 PM

Critless server = empty server

ChikenKannon

August 31st, 2008, 10:45 AM

Critless server = empty server

Arena gets and stays full if people from the forums (4 seems to work) join.

notorious

August 31st, 2008, 10:58 AM

Pharmacy

August 31st, 2008, 12:53 PM

with the probable rotation changes to server #1 and #2, server #2 is going to become something of a favorites server. that is, the regulars of TNR will play a lot on server #2 because it has a rotation of maps that they enjoy and they will stay on to play. Because of this, i think removing crits from server #2 in addition to the map rotation change is a good idea, since the people who will play on server #2 will stay the same. and nowadays, everyone is getting more and more use to no crit servers, so the problems that were present with the no crit server soooo many months back shouldnt be there at all.

I think you're making a huge generalization here.

First of all, we all know #2 won't be populated only by regulars. It's a pub server and if it's going to stay full it's with people from the public. If you think it can be populated only by regulars then why not make it a private server?

Also, more than half of the regulars you speak of have voted to KEEP crits on servers 1 and 2. You're just ignoring the statistics here.

Whatever, I could elaborate but I'm off to the arcade. Fallacious arguments ftl ^_^

iheartyou

August 31st, 2008, 01:27 PM

Also, more than half of the regulars you speak of have voted to KEEP crits on servers 1 and 2. You're just ignoring the statistics here.

Ignoring statistics for the betterment of ourselves and teh people we play with, FTW.
Also factor in the fact that there is no REMOVE CRITS from BOTH option, and people were forced to pick between 2 broken servers atm, the poll becomes 50/50, funny how statistics work out when you look at them in a new light?

CocoonMaN

August 31st, 2008, 02:06 PM

My vote is to KEEP CRITS ON all servers.

Crits are fun, and a part of the game. If you can't deal with em, play CS or something.

blargh. :(

Pharmacy

August 31st, 2008, 04:13 PM

Ignoring statistics for the betterment of ourselves and teh people we play with, FTW.

Irrelevant. Why ignore statistics if we polled people to get their opinion? Besides, playing with crits on won't make you worse you know.

Also factor in the fact that there is no REMOVE CRITS from BOTH option, and people were forced to pick between 2 broken servers atm, the poll becomes 50/50, funny how statistics work out when you look at them in a new light?

That's what I'm saying! A little over 50% of regulars voted to keep crits on both. Assuming the average (ie no clan and plays for fun) pubber likes crits, I think it's in TNR's best interest to keep crits on both 1 and 2. Unless there's a huge mass of hardcore players that's just itching to play on these servers but aren't because of the crits, I don't see how having a critless server can be beneficial in the short or long term.

That being said, if you still absolutely must play without crits, you still have plenty of avenues, including pugs and arena, both of which TNR offers.

So much for new light

Jellyfish

August 31st, 2008, 08:42 PM

Personally I dislike pubbing mostly because of crits. Someone said it gives you more intense emotions... I find it's like a ridiculous award when I get a crit and I feel sorry for the guy, or I get hit by one from around the corner and I'm pretty pissed off. Generally when I pub I want to have fun, and not get frustrated by someone else's luck.

Crits are fun, and a part of the game. If you can't deal with em, play CS or something.

Or play competetive tf2... but you can't always pug and scrim.

That being said, if you still absolutely must play without crits, you still have plenty of avenues, including pugs and arena, both of which TNR offers.

Pugs and arena can get old...

And this whole deal with votes, it seems like half want at least one server without crits, and half want both servers with crits. I think people are rather indifferent to which server is without crits, they just want the option. That being said, if it's practically 50/50, you can't just turn away the no-crit people because they're voting to take them off one server while the crit people are selfishly saying to keep them on both servers.

I think the poll may be flawed. It might have just needed 2 options: Do you want a critless server? yes/no?

It's a selling point for the server too. I mean I don't go looking around for servers with no crits, but I haven't found a no-crit pub to this day. Also I'd just like to say, I'd like to try this... because I wasn't playing enough tf2 when this no-crit pub was here. If it doesn't work out then fine, I'll play with crits just like everybody else.

McPwned

September 1st, 2008, 12:26 AM

My problem with crits is that TF2 is, at its core, a very balanced game. Any class can lose or win. However, adding the random chance of a critical hit seems to disrupt that somewhat - there's nothing more frustrating than getting critted at the exact wrong time.

Conversely, TF2 is also a very chaotic and frantic game, and a soldier crit-rocketing a group of people can just add to the intensity and fun of the game.

Overall, it really depends on why you play - either more competitively, or for the spectacle.

Personally - I dislike crits. The last FPS I played to any great extent was BF2, a game rife with balance issues. It was fun, but oh-so-frustrating when you met up with a dolphin-diver or Grenade-Launcher-whore. Like Jellyfish said, I pity anyone hit by an unfortunate crit, and am frustrated when a soldier points his bazooka in my direction and I die.

Mortivex

September 1st, 2008, 03:00 PM

Is there something written/published by Valve somewhere that states once and for all crits are random?

I hear a 50/50 break in people that I play with that one half calls them random, the other calls them based on your kpd (or some other measurement of how well you're doing).

I've just never seen actual verbiage from the creators of the game stating it either way - we seem here to subscribe pretty heavily to the 'random' theroy...but yet I've seen guy leading the match with 200 points throw 75% crits before...sure, that also could be an abhorration of randomness...but then again...

If crits are random, I say keep them. In the real world people get a 'lucky shot' sometimes don't they? You can get some joker who just picked up a gun for the first time irl hit targets at 300 yards, something 'skilled' people could not do.

If crits are based on how well you're doing - I'd say keep them. Makes one want to play better and not die and lose what could be potential crits right?

Nekkris

September 1st, 2008, 03:02 PM

It's like a base crit rate of something low, 5,10,15% or something based purely on chance. Then after you start doing more damage (IIRC) it raises it a lil bit.

Mortivex

September 1st, 2008, 03:05 PM

So...

doing good = moar crits

That's always what I've believed...why would you want to give up a bonus you get based on performance?

Jellyfish

September 1st, 2008, 03:23 PM

Well then...
Wasn't one of the "keep crit" arguments that it balances it so that worse players can play against better players? A sort of balancing effect?

Now the new argument is that it favours good players, which should be very annoying for worse players (and anyone on the team opposite of the good player(s)). So if this whole "additional crit" thing is true, then it just makes the balance between people's skill levels even more pronounced.

Mortivex

September 1st, 2008, 08:37 PM

So...we want to coddle random net 'tards with with more ascii characters in their name than letters?

The way I view TNR is - "one of the better, if not best set of servers playing TF2." TNR is elite to me. I go to retarded servers to get better before playing TNR. I have played a lot of the a "better" known named servers out there and I just don't find the challenge I do here.

This being true, why do we want to take guys who just started playing today or on free-weekend and hope to mold them into something passable by taking away crits? There are plenty of "TF2 Newbie" servers out there - they're even called so in the server name.

Crits are part of the game as it was designed, and as it should be.

Why do we play with default spawn times on TNR? Because it is as the game was designed and as it should be!

If we take away crits, what's next? Do we go 'Instant Respawn' because red hates waiting? Yeah, that's awesome. /sarcasm

notorious

September 1st, 2008, 09:19 PM

^lolrage^

critless 24 person server will always be better than a 24 person server with crits. end of discussion.

no need for everyone to get so offended
"ZOMG THEYRE GOING TO TAKE MY CRITS AWAY NROOOO"

if you want to play with crits, go to server 3 and 4, they have people in them all the time anyways. Whenever anyone goes through the hassle of starting up server #1 and server #2, i can guarantee you that more than 95% of the time, those people prefer playing without crits to playing with crits.

Timberly

September 1st, 2008, 09:29 PM

NROOOO

Jellyfish

September 1st, 2008, 09:37 PM

notor for prez

Sweetlou

September 1st, 2008, 09:55 PM

notor for prez

2nd

Nekkris

September 1st, 2008, 11:00 PM

Also

Doing damage =/= being good.

<3

Mortivex

September 2nd, 2008, 09:59 AM

if you want to play with crits, go to server 3 and 4, they have people in them all the time anyways. Whenever anyone goes through the hassle of starting up server #1 and server #2, i can guarantee you that more than 95% of the time, those people prefer playing without crits to playing with crits.

My point exactly.

Crit servers = always full

Critless server = "need to be started up"

To each his own - if you like crits use em, if you don't seek out a critless. It's all in what you like. Personally, I feel if it's a feature of the game as it was meant to be played it should be included. Once you start catering to a minority about small details they feel ruin part of an experience they'd like to have, you'll be catering to a lot more in the future.

..I just remember the debacle that was our critless server before. Yeah it's awesome for the 10-20 guys that LOVE playing w/o crits, but if those 10-20 guys decided to play DB that day with their friends, critless was forever empty...

"Hey let's go start up critless!"

"Nah.."

Doing damage =/= being good.

No, but it is being useful.

"Good" could be the guy with 100 points in a round because he set up a ton of sentries guarding your own spawn, and getting points for people taking teles.

"Useful" however is the guy that may get 0 kills, but 50 assists because he's hittin everybody..

Pharmacy

September 2nd, 2008, 10:30 AM

Also

Doing damage =/= being good.

Gotta agree with Nekkris here: any nub can demospam with the best of 'em amirite?

Personally I don't care is #2 gets crits or not, I just want what's best for the community. If you guys have a plan to attract all the critless players to TNR then by all means go for it. However if it's only going to benefit the 10-20 people who want a critless, I think it's a bad idea and the server will remain pretty empty alot of the time.

notorious

September 2nd, 2008, 12:43 PM

My point exactly.
Crit servers = always full

Critless server = "need to be started up"

so that accounts for the fact that tnr #1 and #2 need to be started up at like 5-6pm everyday amirite?

w/e. take crits off server 2. the last time we tried a critless server, crits were still legal in all the major leagues, and not many people had much experience without them. even people in NR/raged were new to no crits at that point. since that time, 1 and a half seasons of cal, 1 and a half seasons of tgl, and a tournament by cevo have alll gone through, without crits. times have changed, people like playing without crits, and an NR critless server would be a welcome addition.

aSydiK

September 2nd, 2008, 12:49 PM

The biggest problem we had with filling up the critless server was because it came up only within the custom tab. With Valve abolishing that tab and putting everything in the regular master list, I think the critless server can be very populated. Look at the arena server for example, it's critless and once populated lots of random people come in there and play. Even a few major competitive gamers have been known to show up in there from time to time.

lefty

September 2nd, 2008, 12:51 PM

ive never seen randomers come into arena... but then again, ive only played on that server 4 or 5 times.

rk-

September 2nd, 2008, 01:24 PM

My point exactly. Crit servers = always full. Critless server = "need to be started up".

How can you make this point when we don't have a critless server yet? By your logic, #1/#2 right now should be full, right? Because they currently have crits?

Motivex, #3 & #4 get more action because they don't have to contend with people not liking the map - cuz it never changes. Go look at server rankings (http://www.gametracker.com/?tab=tf2), most of the servers in the top10 are 24/7 servers - those servers by design get more action. #1/#2 'have to be started up' because they have rotations, simple as that. It has nothing to do with crits.

More generally, crits off would really make the Kritzkreig an interesting tool strategically.

Mortivex

September 2nd, 2008, 02:39 PM

We did have a critless server a few months ago - that's the precedent I was using.

It's not that I'm against the idea of a no-crits server - I'm just against the idea of a server that's going to be empty most of the time. It's like when we had GP on #3 - GP is a good map, it's fun, it's challenging - but that server emptied everytime GP came up - so we dumped it.

All this being said, crits, no crits...are the server's back to working correctly or can they still be crashed at will by someone recording a demo? I'd say that'd be priority #1 to change before changing rotations, customs, crits etc...

iheartyou

September 2nd, 2008, 04:01 PM

All this being said, crits, no crits...are the server's back to working correctly or can they still be crashed at will by someone recording a demo? I'd say that'd be priority #1 to change before changing rotations, customs, crits etc...

1 word - Multitasking.

notorious

September 2nd, 2008, 06:03 PM

dude i record pub demos for my frag vid

WiseGuy

September 2nd, 2008, 06:17 PM

dun touch my crits :(

Jellyfish

September 2nd, 2008, 07:08 PM

notor makes pro demos

Mortivex

September 2nd, 2008, 07:47 PM

dude i record pub demos for my frag vid

On 1 & 2?

Hm, the plot thickens.

This is the kind of thing you should share with Admins/Valve - demos seem to crash 1 & 2 all the time - what are you doing different that isn't causing it? In all seriousness, if this solves a problem then cool..

Jellyfish

September 2nd, 2008, 08:23 PM

*woosh*

notorious

September 2nd, 2008, 09:05 PM

recording demos on server 1 is fine. it depends on the server mod. therefore, if you've been killed by me on server #1, chances are ur going to be in my upcoming frag video!

STAY POSTED

Sweetlou

September 2nd, 2008, 09:09 PM

u kill me lots IM RICH BITCH pls forward all cash too Viz Dave is a power glove i sure he'll make sure it heads our way.

Nekkris

September 2nd, 2008, 09:57 PM

recording demos on server 1 is fine. it depends on the server mod. therefore, if you've been killed by me on server #1, chances are ur going to be in my upcoming frag video!

STAY POSTED

pub staaaaaaaaaaaaaaar 4 life!

Sher1ator

September 3rd, 2008, 01:21 AM

iheartyou

September 3rd, 2008, 02:19 PM

Wow that's so cool! Maybe I will let you kill me someday and I can be in it too!

Don't get your hopes up, with so many kills, there are bound to be cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if his video contains mostly teleporter exits and dispenser kills because they have the coolest deaths.

Mr Fax Sender

September 3rd, 2008, 02:48 PM

u kill me lots IM RICH BITCH pls forward all cash too Viz Dave is a power glove i sure he'll make sure it heads our way.

Sweetlou is such an illiterate noob.

notorious

September 3rd, 2008, 03:05 PM

Don't get your hopes up, with so many kills, there are bound to be cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if his video contains mostly teleporter exits and dispenser kills because they have the coolest deaths.

STOP MAKING IT OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE THAT I SHOWED YOU THE SCREENER GOD.

iheartyou

September 3rd, 2008, 03:07 PM

STOP MAKING IT OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE THAT I SHOWED YOU THE SCREENER GOD.
My apologies good sir, however the mad airshots on those dispensers at @2:43 are sick!!! i had to share those tidbits with the world and not have all of your fans disappointed when they didn't make the cut, ya kn0w, just looking out.

on another note -
Votes 38 for no crits
Votes 37 for crits
<=50% nocrits