Flaming through the floor...

[Mortivex]

..IMO is the same as "shooting thru the gates."

Am I wrong?

The floor - this solid thing that by game mechanics should be impermeable - can be shot thru by crafty pyros.

If you find a hole in a gate, shoot thru it, and kill some one - it's a 2 week ban right?

Shooting through the floor tho is acceptable?

I've posted for bans about this before (http://www.northernresistance.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4353), and when I do, I get told, "nah, it's ok..valve hasn't fixed it yet, it's legal." I didn't post to the ban forum tonight (although I do have the info) because I was sure it'd be shot down.

But then people shot through the gates before Valve fixed it it was a ban...?!

I'm just getting aggravated (as you might have guessed) because again tonight I ragequit'd over a pyro killing me from underneath.

Can we fix this? Make it a 2 week ban similar to gate killing..?

[SniperGimp]

I thought this already was bannable?

[aSydiK]

The biggest difference is... that flaming through gates is attacking during setup which is why it was bannable. It's not supposed to be allowed for most maps with one exception and that's cp_well.

[Nekkris]

man ot a little bit but banning for shooting through gates is ghey.
you deserve it if you run up to the gate and start taunting.. amirite

[null]

Well, last I checked, TNR doesn't allow exploits, and this, by definition, is an exploit. Fire isn't meant to go through walls. :P I'm all for the banning of people that exploit this screw-up. *shrug*

[aSydiK]

Explosions go through certain floors too... I'd say that'd be the test... if explosions can go through, flaming should be able to go through, otherwise it shouldn't be allowed. IMO anyway. The biggest concern for me here is we don't want to turn into some uptight servers that no one would want to join do we?

[lefty]

think of how hot that wall would get.

[Nekkris]

Hey guys this just in: TNR redefined the laws of physics and chemistry and has proven that fire cannot pass through metal fence/gates.

Guys, I think we've just found something for fire fighters to wear!
PATENTED!

[lefty]

chain link fences are fire proof. trust.

this can be solved via a giant message that says;

"dont get burned before round start... stay away from the gates"

[Rolo]

Explosions go through walls too Mortivex. Can't really stop it.

But I'm on the side of no shooting through gates during setup. It's not just flames, it's also pipe bombs, sniper shots and sentries (yes sentries).

[iheartyou]

Flaming through gates in setup = bad and banable
Flaming through the walls because valve allows it due to magical flame physics = bad only
The flame used to be able to pass through the walls on goldrush before the walls were fixed, i'm sure it will only be a matter of time before certain physics are corrected.
ps - everytime i get killed by a crit i take a screenshot and hope to get the person banned one day... sher1 i'm starting with you!

[McPwned]

ps - everytime i get killed by a crit i take a screenshot and hope to get the person banned one day...

If that worked, I'd have Suko on twenty consecutive life bans.

[Sweetlou]

ps - everytime i get killed by a crit i take a screenshot and hope to get the person banned one day...

h8er

[Krythos]

as far as i can see, it should be a ban since it's exploiting valves laziness. lol.

but in all seriousness, is the floor a grated look? or like rock, thats being shot through? if its a grated look, then its working as expected, if its solid, it probably isnt.

or are you talking about the corner issues where a pyro can just focus on you and if you turn a corner you still get hit by his flames, same with corners going up?

what map and approximitly where did it happen?

[jkaupp]

In that case, you'd have to ban about 95% of the server as due to bad game mechanics most people have shot through a wall/around a corner at some point.

It's not like people go "Massive cheat time!" and camp a corner to fire through walls. Heavies/Pyros are the worst for it due to the spread of their weapon, and it happens unintentionally.

[null]

In that case, you'd have to ban about 95% of the server as due to bad game mechanics most people have shot through a wall/around a corner at some point.

It's not like people go "Massive cheat time!" and camp a corner to fire through walls. Heavies/Pyros are the worst for it due to the spread of their weapon, and it happens unintentionally.

Well, as far as the interp factor is concerned, I'll bitch about it, but leave it at that. It's more the intentionally going under a floor to flame any buildings that happen to be placed on the other side that I see as an issue. 2nd floor of the right hand building on the spawn side of Goldrush's first portion comes to mind. A bit of the floor juts out, and I've seen/had pyros just go under and exploit.

I mean, really. We've had this sort've discussion with the demos boosting up onto a ledge overlooking the blue spawnpoint on the final portion of dustbowl, resulting in such things being bannable. How is this sort've exploiting any more acceptable?

[ChikenKannon]

No. He's not talking about shooting "through" walls that seems to occur from delay and bad Valving. He's talking about (for example) in goldrush, first stage, on the upper right pathway (the one that used to have the doorway that lead to the stairs. If a sentry is placed up by the ammo kit, a flamethrower can shoot up through the overhang and kill a sentry THROUGH the floor. Not edging the sentry, not extended range. Through a floor.

This should be bannable.

[Sher1ator]

So don't build a sentry there.

[ChikenKannon]

So don't build a sentry there.

Don't build sentries/dispencers/teleporter exits on the second floor of things? (I'm guessing this works on pretty much any floor that the pyro can reach.)

[Sher1ator]

There aren't really that many two floor buildings of that type in TF2 to be honest, and I am under the impression it only works if the floor is thin. It's really not worth banning someone over.

[Pharmacy]

But it's an exploit! I don't see why engineers should avoid building on second floors because crafty pyros can exploit game mechanics. That's just retarded. I definitely think this should be bannable.

[null]

There aren't really that many two floor buildings of that type in TF2 to be honest, and I am under the impression it only works if the floor is thin. It's really not worth banning someone over.

Keep in mind that the exploit bans are temporary, unless the person's a repeat offender, and, even then, I believe it'd take several infractions to warrant a perm-ban for a thing like this. It's meant as a deterrent, really.

[MiNdWaRp]

I would warn, kick, ban if I saw this happening. As far as I'm concerned, if it's not meant to be shot through, it shouldn't be shot through. This is the same thing as shooting through the gate before the round starts. It's not meant to be possible, so you shouldn't do it.

[FourierT]

You guys take TF2 way too seriously. More than 70% of the ban request threads are about a pyro flaming through the gates during start up. If it's really an issue, don't stand near the gates and then make a forum post about it afterwards.

As far as the flaming through floors/walls and around corners goes, there's not much that can be done about it. In the heat of the moment people are more concerned about getting out of sentry fire and/or destroying the sentry, so their first reaction isn't to pause for a minute and make sure they don't accidentally flame through a floor or wall. There's no point in banning someone 3 days after such an insignificant infraction that even the most honest players are prone to making every once in a while.

[Pharmacy]

You guys take TF2 way too seriously. More than 70% of the ban request threads are about a pyro flaming through the gates during start up. If it's really an issue, don't stand near the gates and then make a forum post about it afterwards.

As far as the flaming through floors/walls and around corners goes, there's not much that can be done about it. In the heat of the moment people are more concerned about getting out of sentry fire and/or destroying the sentry, so their first reaction isn't to pause for a minute and make sure they don't accidentally flame through a floor or wall. There's no point in banning someone 3 days after such an insignificant infraction that even the most honest players are prone to making every once in a while.

I tend to think taking things seriously = more and better results, but whatever.

And FT, I think you're seeing the problem from the wrong angle. We're not talking about banning people for accidentally flaming around a corner in the heat of battle. What we're talking about is someone who, for example, sits under a full health sentry and destroys it through the floor. The first is apples, the second is oranges. Don't compare them :)) If one deliberately goes out of his way to exploit something like that, I really don't see why he shouldn't be at least temp-banned.

[Krythos]

I tend to think taking things seriously = more and better results, but whatever.

And FT, I think you're seeing the problem from the wrong angle. We're not talking about banning people for accidentally flaming around a corner in the heat of battle. What we're talking about is someone who, for example, sits under a full health sentry and destroys it through the floor. The first is apples, the second is oranges. Don't compare them :)) If one deliberately goes out of his way to exploit something like that, I really don't see why he shouldn't be at least temp-banned.

but we CAN compare apples and oranges, since they both be fruits..... as for a pyro shooting through a floor, if its solid, it should really be fixed, even though its an exploit, BUT most times things like sentries that are flamed in such a manner tend to be in places that not many people can get to, coarse that doesnt happen on the valve maps, since 90% of valve maps dont have multi floors. but yeah I partially agree with banning people who deliberately go to a place they shouldnt to flame up, but at the same time, it depends on the position, if its hard for anyone but a demo to get to to get rid of the sentry, dont you think the pyro is just abit justified?

[null]

but yeah I partially agree with banning people who deliberately go to a place they shouldnt to flame up, but at the same time, it depends on the position, if its hard for anyone but a demo to get to to get rid of the sentry, dont you think the pyro is just abit justified?

Considering that the pyros aren't really meant for destroying sentries in the first place, yes, I can blame them. :P There's always a way to get at the sentries without exploiting. Hell, if a sentry/sentries are giving my team a hard time, I'll change to demo to take care of it myself. *shrug*

[McPwned]

An important point has been made in this thread: intent. Those who are advocating banning are not saying pyro+sentry above=ban; they're saying that if they are trying to exploit, they should be banned. If you're concerned that unintended actions can be mistaken as intent, we should have photo proof of such a ban, maybe? That way, the admin can decide.

[PhilouFelin]

You guys take TF2 way too seriously. More than 70% of the ban request threads are about a pyro flaming through the gates during start up. If it's really an issue, don't stand near the gates and then make a forum post about it afterwards.


+100000000

[notorious]

i would say something but ft said everything already

[ChikenKannon]

this isn't something that can accidently happen. You have to be looking up at a floor, you're not able to see the sentry and you decide hey I'm going to shoot at the floor for 10 seconds killing everything through the concrete floor.

[null]

i would say something but ft said everything already

lol Although, he missed the actual point of the thread entirely. :P And it's damn funny to say that we take the game too seriously simply because we have an opinion as to how it's played -- as far as exploits go, at least -- and then proceed to give your own opinion. <3